By Soumitro Datta, Dharmesh Ba and Geetika Shukla
This interview was conducted as a part of ‘Future of data sharing’ sponsored by Facebook. In this series, we interviewed participants around their access, adoption, and usage of financial products along with their perception of data sharing to financial institutions.
Disclaimer: The income range was self-reported by the participant. D91 Labs does not request the participants to disclose their exact income.
Short Story
29-year-old Pulkit works as an accountant in a private company in New Delhi. He stays with his parents, wife, and daughter in a house they own. In the short term, Pulkit wants to buy a 4 wheeler for his family while his long term goal is to build his own house. He aspires to secure his daughter’s future so that she can get the best education. He also wants to save enough and become financially strong.
Banking
- Pulkit opened his first account with Canara Bank because the bank was right next to his house, he didn’t have to go far for it.
- His salary account was opened 6 years back with Kotak Mahindra Bank by his first employer. He transfers some amount to his Canara Bank account as savings.
So, whose idea was it? To open a bank account?
There was a need, I mean the fees of the college are submitted through DD. So, my dad didn’t have that much time, so, that he can take a day off for getting that DD. So, if I have an account, then I make a DD with my account by submitting cash, my father used to pay the fees of the college, so, I thought that I will do it myself by submitting cash. And if you have a debit card then if you urgently need cash you can withdraw cash, I faced this situation once or twice, then at last I felt the need of opening an account.Do you have a credit card with your Kotak bank account?
They offered me a credit card at Kotak but I didn’t take that offer. Actually, in credit cards, I mean it is like if you get a credit card then you can’t control yourself. Right now, if you need anything, you have a credit card and you can swap it anywhere. I thought but applying for a credit card once or twice, but after that, I changed my mind, so, I have never applied for a credit card.Do you transfer a fixed amount to your savings accounts every month?
No, it isn’t fixed. Like the company is saying, the lockdown is going on now, so, there was no work during April. So, after that when the office was open, then we started to get home-based work, then the company is saying we can’t give you 100 percent salary, we will give you 70 or 80 percent salary. If I get less salary, then I’m not able to save any money. Especially if I talk about this lockdown.
Payment Modes
Pulkit’s most preferred payment method is UPI and digital wallet. He uses Paytm as he believes that Paytm works everywhere and gives good cashbacks and rewards.
But which one do you use more frequently? I mean which one do you use more often?
I use wallet and UPI as well, like if I’m doing some online transactions, if there is a good offer if I pay with my wallet, then I will use the wallet in that case. Like if I add 1000 rupees in my wallet, I mean if I get 70 rupees, for example, if I’m doing a phone recharge, then if I get an offer, if add this much amount into your wallet you will get this much cashback, then I will add it in the wallet and then use it. That depends on the offers which are offered by the company. If the company is giving me a direct cashback, then it is also good, if the company is saying, there is that thing called a lucky coupon, I don’t believe in that thing because you don’t get anything in those coupons, once I got one rupee and once I got nothing, so, I don’t like that, I believe more in flat cashback.
Pulkit has used PhonePe in the past but uninstalled it because some of his colleagues and relatives got fraudulent calls and got money deducted from their bank account. He believes that there are some security issues with PhonePe.
He has uninstalled the PhonePe app but hasn’t unlinked his bank account.
Why don’t you use PhonePe?
Actually, because of the fraud calls, some of my office colleagues have received fraud calls and I have also received it once, that you will get a cashback and then they start sending you messages, then the money gets deducted from your account, then you get a call from the bank and they ask you are you doing these transactions, there is a very big security issue in PhonePe.Ok, what do you mean by fraud calls, what type of calls?
Like earlier, I used to get for Paytm as well. In Paytm you might have heard or read about it if someone is calling you for doing KYC, so, for that they send some links, if you click on that link then you grant them access to your phone, so, they withdraw your money.So, has it happened to anyone? Do you anyone who has experienced this?
Yes, it happened with one of my relatives and in my friend circle as well, that is why it is stuck in my mind. I have experienced it myself and I have searched it on Google as well, I have seen it live as well, so, I felt there is a security issue in PhonePe, that is why I stopped using PhonePe.Ok, so, you use cash where you have to, where there is no other option?
Yes, if you are standing somewhere and if you are haggling and if you strike a good bargain with a street vendor or someone else, then you have to pay cash there, why will you pay through UPI there? Because they say it, that if you pay through UPI then you have to pay 100 rupees and if you pay by cash then you can give 80 or 90 rupees, so, it depends on that as well.
Expenses
Pulkit’s recurring expenses include utility bills, medicines for his mother and daughter’s school fees.
How do you pay the electricity bill?
I pay it online and sometimes I can pay by cash as well, like if I withdraw cash, like if I know that I have to pay more for the electricity bill this month, then due to some technical errors sometimes you get a huge electricity bill, so, in that case, you have to visit their office and solve that technical error. Like for example if your bill is 6000 rupees, now I know that there is some error, that is why the amount of the bill is higher. Then I have to go to their office and reduce the bill, then if they decrease it to 4500 rupees, in that case, I have to go there and pay it by cash. Then if that is not the case I pay it online.And if there is some offer then you can use Paytm also? Or do you use any other mode?
Yes, earlier, if I talk about two years back, then I used to pay it through the PhonePe app. PhonePe had this benefit, like if I spend 100 rupees on petrol then I have to pay only 65 rupees for it if I pay it through PhonePe. In the beginning when my office colleagues told me about it, they said PhonePe is giving very nice offers. Today we filled petrol with 100 rupees and I only had to pay 30 rupees for it. When I experienced it myself, then I felt it was very good. So, in the beginning, PhonePe was giving very nice offers, but they are not giving any offers right now and I felt that security issue, that is why I stopped using it.So,do you book train tickets through the IRCTC website or the app?
No, I book it through their website only. Because it is a very heavy site, their server is very heavy. So, I have experienced it myself, I booked the tickets with Paytm and it was saying not seats available, then after that, I tried booking a ticket from their official website, then the seats were available. Now you might have seen that IRCTC said that you can’t book tickets from any third-party app now. Like now Corona is going on, so, only some special trains are functional now, so, the tickets are available only on their official site, you can’t use any third-party app for that. I book tickets using my debit cards if there are some offers.
Investments
Pulkit has an active fixed deposit and a provident fund. He plans to invest in mutual funds in the future.
I would like to talk about your savings. So, money that you save, do they pile up in your account only or do you have an FD of that amount?
Of course, I have an FD. As you see, I’m saving 20% of my salary every month, so when the amount is big enough, it’s illogical if I don’t put that money to use, so I make an FD and I get a satisfaction that at least, I have an active FD.When you first started this FD.
Many years back, when I started this FD, I had started it with about Rs.50000. I first took the maturity tenure of 1 year and had a sense of satisfaction that I have an active FD. Then next year, when I renewed it, I did so with a larger amount. Banks also have options for you whether you want to opt for 1 year or 5 years. That option depends on you, to select the term of years for your FD, it depends on the amount of the FD and the savings that you have right now.Okay. But if you have knowledge about it, why didn’t you invest your money, any specific reason for it?
No specific reason for it. But there are two types of money in mutual funds. One is, money in mutual funds in terms of market risk and the other is, where you get a lower return. You get a very flat return in it. Flat means, for example, I’m giving you Rs.25000. I know the amount is fluctuating like the share market, so after one year, I can get Rs. 50000, 30000 or 40000. If I gave Rs.25000 as an FD, I know that my account is secure and I also know that I would get Rs. 30000 or 35000, not more than that.
Insurance
Pulkit started a LIC moneyback policy 3 years back. He took this policy because he would get a lump sum amount after 4–5 years.
Why did you start it? Did anyone give you an idea or did you decide it on your own and started it?
I was suggested to take life insurance, I also thought that the plan was nice and to get life insurance for myself for security. My relatives and friends were also telling me that they have taken up life insurance as well. So I thought about taking life insurance. So I registered for it.Did you request them to send an agent to your house?
No. Actually, I was in the market and there were agents there, they had their camps set up like they usually do. So I thought to check out the plans, I fed my details and then the agent came to my house.How do you pay the premium?
For this if you want to pay using PayTM, you can do so. If you are in the market or on the way, if there’s any LIC office, you can pay there as well. At the start, when I first paid my premium, I paid that by going to the office, but after that, the second premium I paid was with my PayTM.
Technology
Okay. So, how many years have you been using smartphones?
Smartphones, I mean, after the launch of Jio. I had a smartphone before Jio as well but I didn’t use the Internet as much because during that time the Internet was quite costly. So, after the launch of Jio is when I use it more.What are the kind of groups that you have which you are a member of?
Actually, I have one group called “Relative”, so there, all of my cousins post messages and have fun in the group. If there’s a plan in the works to go somewhere, so without the rest of the family, we decide for it.What do you think about the ban of these Chinese apps?
TikTok was India’s most famous app and genuinely speaking, I used to watch a lot of videos on it. I feel that you can describe it as a security issue. Because Chinese government is not giving you a surety that your mobile data is not being hacked and you might have heard a news that a person who never traveled outside of India got his card swiped in China.
Data Sharing and Privacy
Pulkit has denied certain permissions for a paid gaming app that he felt were suspicious. Since then he makes sure to give the terms and conditions of various apps a glance. A similar incident with a friend reinforced this belief.
When did you start to note things like terms and conditions?
I mean, not a long time ago, but after the gaming incident. Actually, I had a friend who once had an incident where some amount of his was deducted. So after that, I saw this and after downloading the app, I read the terms and conditions, towards the end when I saw it, I was denying it but I was unable to open the app. So I deleted the app without opening it. I mean, if I’m downloading Facebook… I have formatted my mobile or have upgraded the software of my mobile and I download apps like WhatsApp and Facebook, I allow all the permission for these apps, I don’t read the terms and conditions for them. But, when it comes to certain new apps, then I do read it one time.
Pulkit prefers to opt for a loan from a government bank if the loan amount is high.
It depends upon my amount. If I want a loan of higher amount or if I want a home loan then my first preference will be Government Bank.
We asked the participant what kind of data would they be interested in sharing across the different types of loan providers to borrow a personal loan.
And if they ask you for your FD details, so if any lender is asking for it while providing a loan, then how will you feel? Would you want to share or not in such a case?
If a Government Bank or some banks are asking, then even if you don’t share your information, they will still get a hold of it, it is quite obvious. It is because the bank has a certain system with RBI, so the bank staff can get hold of the information.
To further cross their statements we asked the participants to choose from two different types of loans based on their varying data requirements and captured their thoughts.
In this case, it depends on the terms and conditions. So, the terms of the provider… for example, the option with 12 percent, they are telling me, “You have to also share your social media details, without it the process won’t be taking place, and you have to share the same information of your office colleagues, and you have to do these particular things, then I will be thinking that somewhere or the other, I can give 1 rupees or 10 rupees or 1 or 2 percent more, I can get more security in the other option. In the first option, the provider is not asking me for my personal contacts. Why should I give my personal contact? That’s the first and foremost thing. Why should I share my office boss’ number?
I will give more interest rate. For example, if I get 30 percent incrementation or if my salary has increased, then why should I tell them about it? So, they will say, “Sir, your salary has increased.” I mean, I can’t say what that term is exactly, then why should I give this information to them?
Goals & Aspirations
- In the short term, Pulkit wants to buy a 4 wheeler for his family while his long term goal is to build his own house.
- He aspires to secure his daughter’s future so that she can get the best education. He also wants to save enough and become financially strong.
Your daughter’s age currently is 3.5 years, so what have you thought about her?
I have thought about her that when she goes to school in the near future, she will study in school, then it’s fees will be there, its fees, payment is there. So, in some or the other way, I will buy an FD in her name or I will take LIC Mutual Fund, so that after 20 years, there shouldn’t be that sort of financial problem for her, like if she wants to do her education out of India, or any goals that a child has, or if in future, she shouldn’t face any problem in the future. You can do anything for that, you can apply for a long-term LIC, like my LIC is going on, if you do FD for 20 years, then I don’t think that I will be able to get a high interest rate in FD.So, what are your aspirations?
I have a dream that I should be so financially strong. If I do or do not have a job or God-forbid there is an accident, or if I get financially strong to an extent, then sir, for lifetime, I won’t be needing anyone’s support, I should be able to do everything independently.
Credits
- Interview by Soumitro Datta
- Analysed and written by Geetika Shukla & Dharmesh Ba
Future of Data Sharing:
‘Future of Data Sharing’ aims at designing a playbook for consented sharing to enable financial services in India. The objective of this research is to develop a design toolkit with the upcoming public infrastructure Account Aggregators as the main theme in focus. The toolkit will host resources and assets around designing better user experiences for data sharing and data portability.
Future of Data Sharing is sponsored by Facebook and executed in collaboration with D91 Labs, DICE, Parallel Labs and TTC Labs
Future of Data Sharing by D91 Labs is licensed under CC BY-SA 4.0
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About the Research
This documentation is a result of the in-person interview, along with the participants’ consent. The interviews might be conducted in their native languages and translated to English in the best possible way to reach a large audience.
Disclaimer: The identities of people and places in this documentation have been changed to honour the privacy of the participants.
About D91 Labs
This research was executed and documented by D91 labs. D91 labs is an open-source initiative by setu.co to help Bharat build great fintech products. We organise and publish user research, insights, and frameworks for fintech in India. Please follow us on medium for more exciting stories and insights on Bharat.
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